Ali Jamal, founder and managing partner of First Check Ventures, joins Vlad Cazacu, co-founder and CEO of Flowlie, to discuss his transition from angel investor to syndicate lead and now fund manager.
Ali Jamal, founder and managing partner of First Check Ventures, joins Vlad Cazacu, co-founder and CEO of Flowlie, to discuss his transition from angel investor to syndicate lead and now fund manager.
You can find Ali Jamal on Twitter at https://twitter.com/MrAliJamal and learn more about First Check Ventures at https://www.firstcheckventures.com/
Learn more about Flowlie and how the platform can help you screen deals faster and discover the right connections from your network at https://www.flowlie.com/
Stay up-to-date with all our episodes by checking our website at https://www.thevcarchitects.com/, following us on Twitter at https://twitter.com/thevcarchitects, and on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thevcarchitects/.
The VCA (Ep. 1) - Ali Jamal (First Check Ventures)
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Ali Jamal: [00:00:00] I am Ali Jamal. I'm the founding partner of First Check Ventures. We are an investment firm that looks for amazing companies in their earliest stages all over the world.
Vlad Cazacu: Hey everyone. Thanks for tuning in and welcome to the VC Architects, the podcast where we share the real stories behind new VC fund managers and the blueprints used to make them successful. My name is Vlad Cazacu, and I'll be your host today as we interview Ali Jamal. This is an exciting conversation with an investor who deployed capital all over the world, built an angel syndicate with thousands of LPs, and made the transition from syndicate lead to fund GP.
For more information about starting and growing your venture fund, including show notes, highlight clips, and exclusive scenes, follow us on Twitter and Instagram at the VC Architects, as well as on our website at thevcarchitects.com.
This episode is brought to you by Flowlie, the number one choice for deal screening and network management used by hundreds of [00:01:00] investors from 50 plus countries around the world.
Now, let's dive right in.
All right. Thank you so much, Ali for joining us. Really appreciate having you live on the podcast. Super excited about our conversation and I believe we're gonna be able to unpack a lot of information about your background and your journey as an angel investor and syndicator turned fund manager.
Especially focused on an area of the world that not of people are looking at. So super, super excited about the conversation today.
Ali Jamal: Yeah, really excited to be here and to talk to you guys.
Vlad Cazacu: Thank you. Just to get the ball rolling. I'm curious to, you know, do a little bit of retrospective on your very first angel investment.
If you hopefully still remember it, just curious on how that happened. What was the genesis of the very, very first angel check?
Ali Jamal: So I guess I've had a few first angel checks in kind of different, uh, capacities. So, you know, there was kind of the first deal I ever. Invested in[00:02:00] which was kind of way back, probably more than 10 years ago now.
And that was, you know, just some friends that were raising their first round. It got a chance to kind of invest directly, and this was the days before most of the modern tools exist. So, uh, it was, you know, kind of writing a physical check and a bank transfer and all that sort of stuff in a friend's startup.
And then I ended up making my first investment, uh, kind of in a syndicate through AngelList back in 2015 and then in kind of 2016 and 2017, started ramping up more and started kind of investing in, it was, it was really just a lot of kind of friends or friends of friends that were starting groups or starting syndicates, um, and that I was getting introduced to and started writing some checks.
And then there was, you know, kind of the first angel check I wrote. Um, as a syndicate [00:03:00] lead as well. And so, you know, I've kind of worn all the different hats and I feel like tried to write different checks in different ways. So it's been an interesting experience. And I'm
Vlad Cazacu: curious, how was the transition right from, you know, moving to writing some individual checks and then being, coupling some other people together to write an angel check, to actually taking the responsibility of the syndicate and saying, Hey, I believe we should be doing this opportunity and other people trusting you to make that investment decision.
Ali Jamal: So I think with anything, right, it, it's kind of a, a combination of things that start developing. It's, you know, you gaining more confidence in your own ability to pick winners. And for me that was based on kind of my, my track record as an individual writing checks. And that gave me more and more confidence in seeing things early and.
Understanding what was happening. Part of it was also, you know, my background is in product and [00:04:00] growth. And so having had a chance to work in some different spaces like FinTech, marketplaces, travel and when we started to see opportunities in those spaces and being confident that, you know, As somebody who was working in these companies, these might be a target that we wanna acquire or wanna partner with, right?
Started to give me more confidence. And so once I kind of became more and more confident about what I was doing, felt more confident, writing my own check, I then felt more confident kind of presenting it to groups of people. Um, And, and so, you know, there, there's always a bit of imposter syndrome. And, and you know, I, I would be worried if, if a fund manager didn't have that, right?
Like, um, we're gonna make mistakes. We're gonna be wrong more than we're Right. That's, I. It's the nature of the game. That's the nature of venture capital in general. But I think it's especially [00:05:00] true in early stage, right? If everything I picked was a winner, I think I'm actually doing something wrong, not something right?
Right. Because then I'm being too conservative. I'm not going after, um, the big opportunities. So, uh, absolutely, you know, it, it's, it's been a journey and gaining more confidence from, you know, making some. Riskier betts, but maybe initially through other people and other syndicates to then start to feel confident that that was a strategy that made sense for me.
And things, you know, that look risky aren't always risky, and things that look safe aren't always safe. And so part of it was coming up with my own personal thesis and beliefs and trust that I was confident in what decisions I was making and why I was making.
Vlad Cazacu: Fantastic. And let's stay a second on this topic of risk, because I think it's a fascinating topic to unpack a little bit.
What was the [00:06:00] original source of funds for your, or your angel checks? Was it just the regular paycheck that you were receiving from the
Ali Jamal: jobs? Yeah. Yeah, so it was, you know, I, I was making money and I've been ma you know, working for quite a while typically for, you know, institutions that were paying me and, um, I.
You know, I, I previously invested in, you know, public companies or in mutual funds and things like that. And to be honest, you know, I wasn't really seeing it at, you know, that great of returns and, and the public markets. I probably wasn't able to like, maintain the same level of research consistently. And you know, I just kind of realized, you know, I could keep on putting my money into these things that I'm just making guesses on.
Or I can put money into the private market where maybe I'm making guesses, but at least if I'm guessing right, the upside is, is much more so, uh, absolutely to shift mentally, [00:07:00] to go from, you know, these big, you know, huge market cap companies. But at the end of the day, I really have no influence and no impact on what they're doing.
And, you know, even if there's a growth, it's just a very different level of growth and a very different level of change. Compared to what can happen in the earliest stages, and those earliest stages were more attractive to me and more interesting
Vlad Cazacu: to me. And how much were you willing, you know, to allocate to this, right?
Because as you're speaking about, you know, private markets versus investing in public markets, and I feel that's a general I would say experience for a lot of people out there who are now starting or have started to invest directly or through syndicates, allocating part of their salary and their savings to this earlier stage carries, you know, significantly more risks.
So how risky were you willing to go, uh, in those early days?
Ali Jamal: You know, I think initially, It was, you know, writing checks of, you know, five to 10 K and doing one or two a year. [00:08:00] And then over time I started to shift my strategy, realizing I wanna see more and be a part of it more so trying to get to a point where I could invest in, you know, five or 10 companies a year.
And, you know, kind of taking the math on it, how much did I feel comfortable? Maybe 20, 25 k. And so kind of dropping my check size from five K or 10 K down to two or three K in order to get the number of companies I wanted in the portfolio. And then, you know, kind of in, in following years, I even went, you know, to, to lower check sizes and started making more and more one or you know, 1500 bets. Got it.
Vlad Cazacu: And you took that approach to be able to, diversify that the portfolio you're getting and as a result, quite frankly, to get some probably testing ground right. For the upcoming syndicate and the fund
Ali Jamal: as well and just more information and being able to get more involved and seeing more about [00:09:00] what was happening.
So, you know, I think the initial strategy of writing. These bigger checks is something that a lot of people start with and often then, you know, you end up at a point where you know, you're writing a 10 K check and you wrote two or three of them a year, and that's really all, you kind of feel comfortable with writing in venture in your first year or two.
And you've done that in three deals. So you have like, you know, maybe six companies after two years and you're getting an update. Every six months. It's, there's just not as much data to really know if you're, you're, you know, if you're good at it. So, um, I tend to recommend people to write smaller checks and write them more frequently, but also to make sure that you're spacing them out.
'cause I see a lot of people end up you know, getting overly excited, running a lot of checks in a very short period of it, not being able to sustain it. So, um, I think, you know, kind of my advice to people is. More along the lines of, you know, kind of pacing yourself. So saying, okay, I'm gonna write, you [00:10:00] know, two one K checks each month.
And if I've, you know, uh, once I've done those two checks, that's all I'm writing this month. And so I'm gonna keep out looking at deals, but I'm not gonna write any more checks until you've kind of seen, you know, three months, five months, nine months of data. And then maybe you feel more comfortable pulling some things in or.
Or really being able to tell. But until you see a larger volume of deals, it's hard to know what a good deal actually is or what the pitfalls are.
Vlad Cazacu: Absolutely. I mean, like if you're, if you're in a game where the feedback will be so long as, venture is, you kinda have to compensate that with some volume.
But if that volume is compensated on a very short timeframe, you're not able to sustain, you know, that consistency that you were mentioning earlier. So being able to, and also. Quite frankly, being diligent enough to keep, great notes and great records of those interactions and of those investments to be able to go back and say, why did I pass?
Why did I invest? Where was the mistake? [00:11:00] And iterate from there. So I'm really curious to, to learn a little bit more about the Angel Syndicate journey. And we're gonna spend just a little bit of time on this before we're gonna dive into the fund. You mentioned many times that you got your first LPs by doing cold calling.
You came from a background of marketing, from growth you're not ashamed of calling people and putting that value out there and seeing who's interested in it. Curious to understand a little bit better. Where was the tipping point? Right. At what point did it feel less like an effort that you're pushing and the market started, you know, pulling and being interested in participating in First Check
Ali Jamal: Ventures Syndicate?
Yeah. So, you know, while I was doing marketing, a lot of it was more on the data side, so I think cold calling is not something that I ever really did. It was more. Reconnecting with people and having kind of conversations about, you know, what I'd been up to, why I was doing what I was gonna be doing, [00:12:00] and seeing who would it would resonate with.
And so you, you know, one of the big things for me was also thinking back to my journey as an LP and that process and you come in and you have some idea from the tech world or from the investment world or whatever. But venture and early stage venture and angel is kind of a different game.
And there's all these terms that get thrown around all these different questions that you might have. And so one of the big things for me was not just. Getting people to invest, but getting people comfortable with why they were investing or what they were investing in. And so one of the big things that I've tried to do is really kind of make it more of a education versus just a straight investment.
And that kind of gets reflected in multiple ways through what I do. So, uh, you know, kind of with the memos that I'm writing and kind of giving more of an explanation of what I'm [00:13:00] thinking I offer up q and as where LPs can ask me questions. We do interviews directly with the founders so they can hear the kind of questions that I'm asking and why they think, uh, well, why I think it's important and why they might want to Invest in this company as well.
And then also just being available directly for questions, right? So I give people my number for WhatsApp. People text me questions, I answer them to the best of my ability. And again, I think it goes to this whole idea of, uh, you know, that, that none of us really know exactly what we're doing. We're all trying to figure it out.
And so, um, I wanna be able to kind of provide that information to why I'm figuring it out or. Well, my thesis is, but you know, your thesis could be completely wrong. Um, and so I think people responded to that idea and to that notion. Um, but you know, it was a lot of outreach for, for, you know, quite a while and even to date, right?
Like I will still [00:14:00] be reaching out to people, um, in different groups, in different settings, and. Um, you know, trying to see if, if they get excited by the idea of joining a syndicated, walking 'em through while I was excited by it, what I'm doing with it and how exactly it works. Uh, 'cause I think the concept is relatively new and, and even people that are familiar with the investment world aren't necessarily that familiar with syndicates.
Um, so, uh, I don't think there was this exact tipping point where all of a sudden was like, oh, I no longer have to. Do outreach or I no longer have to answer emails or I no longer have to have to, you know, be this person that's out there. I think it's always kind of part of what I'm doing. Um, you know, I'm, I'm probably not doing as much direct LinkedIn or email messaging as I was in the past to try to get LPs, but that's also partially because I feel like I've [00:15:00] already messaged most of the people I thought would be interested in.
If they haven't responded, they haven't responded, I don't want to go and be pushy and, and, you know, um, force people into something they don't want to do. But, uh, what I find out is that a lot of the people that I might have messaged, you know, a year ago or 18 months ago, or maybe now following up right now, that they've seen mm-hmm.
Some of the deals that I'm doing take off or, or they're hearing me on podcasts or whatever. So again, it, it is this kind of, Um, you know, there's always kind of constant work to, to build up this user base, to keep them happy, to keep them engaged just like you would with any other kind of product.
Vlad Cazacu: Absolutely. I'm looking forward to the next 50 LPs. We're gonna remember to follow up after listening to this episode. You've definitely done something right? You grew First Check Ventures to, thousands of LPs. You've done a lot of deals across the world. I'm curious to understand a little bit better, like what [00:16:00] motivated you to start a fund?
What was the decision making process there and why?
Ali Jamal: Um, so, you know, I think the big transition from having a syndicate to having a fund is kind of based on, on a, a few, few big things. I. Um, one of the biggest things is, is just that, you know, when I initially started the syndicate, I was still working full-time.
The syndicate was really just a passion and, and, and a hobby. Um, and as it continued to grow, it became a point where it was no longer just a hobby and I had to kind of ended up leaving my full-time job and focus on this full-time and, you know, continue to focus on it full-time, working on this day and night, and I realized that.
This is something that I love. This is something that I want to do, and, and, you know, it's not, you know, just a, a passion project. Even though it's my passion. This is gonna be my life and this is gonna be my life for the next, [00:17:00] I don't know, 30, 40, 50 years. You know, I might still be 90 years old out there and, and, and hopping on angel calls if I can.
Right. Um, and so because of that, right? I want to create something that has that ability to continue to scale and continue to grow and to do it with an institutional focus. Um, and, and so, you know, doing deals on a deal by deal basis, collecting a bunch of, of smaller checks, I think is, is great for the ecosystem.
But it is a lot of paperwork. It's a lot of challenges. It, it, it slows down the process. Um, and so I imagine that I will continue to be doing syndicates and, and SPVs for a while in some capacity. But, uh, I really want to be able to focus on the thing that I love, which. Isn't necessarily, you know, this [00:18:00] paperwork and, and all, all this different sort of stuff, but rather, you know, finding great companies, being able to work with those entrepreneurs, being able to invest in those entrepreneurs.
Um, and so I would much rather focus my time on that versus, you know, maintaining a deal page and trying to make sure that we get all the LPs to see it and engage with it and, and whatever. I'd much rather just. Get to a point where people trust that I'm finding good companies can trust in me to, you know, manage that process for them.
And it becomes a much simpler and easier process when you could just write one check, um, you know, and, and have that knowledge of exactly how much you're gonna invest, be able to negotiate your own terms. Um, you know, all these things are just much more challenging in an SPV or syndicate mindset.
Vlad Cazacu: Not being forced to fundraise for every single deal that you do.
Right, exactly. And being willing to run that first [00:19:00] fundraising marathon in the beginning and then focusing on what matters most, rather than running pieces of that marathon every single time. You come on the right opportunity and sometimes it happens, and I'm sure it happens to you as well, right?
Like you, you may have a great opportunity and there may not be as much excitement about that particular opportunity. And then the frustration of Knowing that you could deploy more and you would love to deploy more, but the market only says that you're deploying X may not really feeling in control of how much you want to actually back that opportunity.
Yeah. It happens
all
Ali Jamal: the way too, right? You have a deal that you think is good, but maybe, you know, it surprises you how much they raise and then you're, you get a little bit worried that like, you know, is this more money than what the company should be taking right now? Mm-hmm. So it could happen both ways.
Um, absolutely. You know, when you're thinking about. This kind of idea of, of creating the, the, something that's institutional and something that can last. Um, I think a fund is really the right structure to do that. And the structure that [00:20:00] is most comfortable for, you know, the, the people that think about long-term investing in, in long-term, um, venture.
Vlad Cazacu: So let's spend a little bit of time on that thesis. 'cause you mentioned, spending more time on the thing that matter most, crafting your thesis, finding the right companies, spending time with 'em to grow. How did you define the thesis of First Check Ventures, the fund versus first Check Venture, the syndicate, if at all different.
Ali Jamal: Yeah. So, you know, the. The big thing with me about for, for the fund was focusing on the, the kinds of deals that were most challenging to raise from the syndicate, but I thought had the most upside. Um, and, and I felt like those two were very interlocked. Um, and, and so, you know, the, the whole process of, uh, Raising an S P V is [00:21:00] that, you know, you get to know these companies very well and then you're presenting it and like you said, right, then the market takes in, but the market doesn't see what you saw, right?
The market doesn't see that you've been talking to them for nine months and that you've been checking in every two weeks and having these follow up calls and how the company responds to your questions. Um, The market isn't seeing how the founders are developing and um, you know, how, uh, how they take your input into what they're building and how they adapt their product line to it, right?
So there's all these things that the market just doesn't see, and I think that creates inefficient markets, right? Um, and, and so again, being able to. Find these companies that you are most confident in and make the investment directly yourself, uh, was really the idea behind the fund. Uh, so let's find the things that, uh, the market's not gonna [00:22:00] price correctly.
The market's not gonna engage correctly. Uh, let's invest in those directly. So
Vlad Cazacu: I'm curious on exploring a little bit this dichotomy that you're putting out there on the market, right? Because at the end of the day, the fundraising for the fund, the LPs for the fund, although they may be a different category than the LPs for the Angels must still subscribe to the same, thesis or have some affinity to your line of thought of this is what companies were, we're gonna back are they, Interested in the fund because of the diversified portfolio that you're creating, whereas they may be a little bit more risk averse to take exactly the same bets that you would be taking on a deal by deal basis, or is there something
Ali Jamal: else?
Yeah, so I think it's a combination of things. I think, uh, you know, one is just that people want the diversity that you get with the fund versus making the direct investments. Um, you know, two is. It's hard, right? To go through and read through all these different investment [00:23:00] memos, to do all these, uh, all this research on the space, uh, takes up a lot of work and, and, you know, uh, especially if you are a wealthier person than a busy person, it might, you know, It might make sense just to outsource it to the fund manager who actually is doing the investment.
Right. So I think that's, um, definitely a part of it. And then, you know, again, I think there's this idea of asymmetrical information that the, you know, VC or syndicate lead is the one that's going out there, you know, dealing with these companies, interacting with their other investors, understanding, you know, the market as a whole and.
That additional insight, um, could be valuable, right? And especially in terms of shaping, you know, the deal terms, shaping the fund size, shaping the, the investment size. Uh, and so I think all three of those kind of come into play, uh, with [00:24:00] why people are coming in. Um, and you know, I think that diversified portfolio.
Uh, especially in kind of pre-seed or, or, or, or seed adds up becoming a huge part of it. Um, you know, so much of venture capital is that one deal that you have that pays for all the rest and pays for all the rest 10 10 x, right? So, uh, a lot of people are worried about missing out on the thing that's. Give you that a hundred x, 200 x thousand x return.
Um, and so with the fund, they make sure they're at least getting some exposure to it.
Vlad Cazacu: Yeah, absolutely. In a sense, and, quite frankly, saying things, the open way, some people are also just lazy right on. Like, some people are busy and some people just don't wanna do the work. And they're quite frankly, you know, off sourcing that work to the GP and placing that trust on you, making the right decision on their behalf and saying, well, I, I know that Ali will do the right diligence, we'll do the right.
[00:25:00] Work and I trust him that he's going to pick hopefully in that basket of assets, a few of those really high performing assets because I don't want to do that work. But I would like to take the upside.
Ali Jamal: Yeah. And then I think the other thing is that, um, you know, when you're with doing a fund, the incentives just seem to be much more aligned, um, compared to a less pv.
And, and so I think because of that, Uh, a lot of people are putting their best deals into the fund and the deals that get to be more public, um, you know, that, that people are willing to expose to these larger audiences and know there's gonna be some amount of data leaks or some amount competition might learn what you're doing.
There's sometimes I think a quality difference, right? And, you know, we've done some great deals through the syndicate. I think we'll continue to do some great deals through the syndicate, but just in general, right? Like [00:26:00] there, there's a natural inclination to put your best deal into the fund not havoc.
Go as public, be able to keep that information to yourself. And really kind of help your fund outperform the rest.
Vlad Cazacu: Absolutely. And I, I think not a lot of people are, willing or open to, to speak about this, right? Because there, there is some risk, right? To running a syndicate and exposing information about a particular company to hundreds, potentially thousands of people through, particular platforms or not through platforms that may have or may not have certain levels of security in place to.
You know, protect the confidentiality of that information. Right. And, AngelList has that, well-known banner on top of every deal. Like, all this information is confidential, but the question is how many people do truly respect and honor that? And how much of that information must be private in the context of a fund when you're trying to get that proprietary information that gives you the advantage against other funds where.
To some [00:27:00] extent competing against you, right?
Ali Jamal: Yeah. And look, I think you know, most of these platforms have put you know, pretty strong security measures and I haven't heard of that many cases of any of the information really leaking, becoming material and nor should it, right? Like, um, if somebody getting a, if your competitor getting a hold of your pitch deck, somehow melts down your strategy, um, and causes you not to raise your next round or cause you not to.
I p o I think there's a bigger issue there, right? Like, um, you know, The people that are investing in you, aren't investing in you because of your pitch deck. They're investing in you because of your ability to execute. Right? And, and so, um, people, I mean, there's tons of people out there, right? That, that will be copycats, that will, will fast follow on what you're doing.
Um, and, and service that shouldn't matter, right? Like you should be, [00:28:00] you know, uh, that top tier operational executive that. Um, you know, even handing your playbook to somebody else shouldn't stop you from beating them. Right? Not only, um, it's not just the playbook, right? But it's all the thought that you put into it, the reasons why you're doing what you're doing.
And so, you know, there's always this fear that I get from, you know, people about having their information lead to. I actually think it's less about that, uh, but more about, uh, Where the information is going, and even if it's not being leaked, right? Like just do you really want all of these VCs to see this information at this point?
Are you really ready to show people, um, this information? Right? So, so it's, I think it's less about people just copying or, or stealing your ideas and more about, um, you know, saving it for when you've kind of worked out more of the kinks and then presenting your [00:29:00] yourself at a, in a better position.
Vlad Cazacu: Exactly, managing the communication channel a little bit more like you being in charge of when and what information gets sent to who rather than being at risk of some people finding out about certain things earlier. I'm really curious now to come back just a little bit back on the topic of, the fund and the syndicate.
How do you see the fund and the syndicate coexisting in the future?
Ali Jamal: The fund is gonna have a very specific thesis and then anything that fits into that thesis will be done through the fund. And then things that are outside of the thesis would be done through the syndicate.
So I just, again, the deals that I get most excited about, the deals that I think are, are, are, uh, you know, most interesting to me. I'm gonna put it to a fund and then I'll do the other things that, um, you know, I see that I'm excited by, but don't fit into that fund thesis as SPVs. And then, you know, follow [00:30:00] ons.
Um, one of the big things that LPs are looking for, or one things that excites a lot of LPs is that ability to, to use the, the, you know, fund investment as a, uh, you know, kind of sourcing mechanism. In which case, uh, you know, we already have this natural ecosystem of having SPBs to do follow ups. Um, and, and so, uh, you know, I don't necessarily need to raise a Series A fund, uh, in order to do a Series A.
We could do that through SPVs
Vlad Cazacu: And from an LP composition syndicate versus the fund. Have you seen much interest from the people who, backed you through syndicates coming into the fund? Or are the people who are interested in the fund just a whole different type of people that you're speaking with?
Ali Jamal: Um, so. You know, the syndicate LPs were, were a great place for me to start [00:31:00] with the fundraising 'cause they're people that already have an interest in venture, already have exposure to my track record and, uh, you know, have hopefully already made some money or, or at least money on paper with the deals that I've done.
Right. So, uh, that was. Kind of my initial, you know, go to market strategy was tapping into those initial LPs. And then as you kind of, um, get more momentum on your fundraising, you start going to kind of a broader audience. Um, maybe more, uh, people who invest in funds versus investing in. SPVs, um, and, you know, maybe some larger institutions, some family offices and, and so the strategy has kind of been, let's start with, uh, you know, the people who know me and who trust me and get some momentum there and then broaden it out to a wider audience.
Vlad Cazacu: And what would you say is one of the biggest lessons on the [00:32:00] fundraising side? Something that, maybe surprised you or you weren't really sure before you actually started fundraising?
Ali Jamal: I think, I'm been raising for so long for SPVs and for deals and presenting other people at other work.
And I think, I've been. Hesitant about presenting myself as something to invest in. And so, you know, one of the big, biggest challenges I think for me was getting to a point where I was comfortable in saying, yeah, it's not about the deal right now. You need to invest in me and trust my judgment so you're investing in my judgment.
Um, and, and that's, I think, you know, kind of a, a, something that I was scared that would be too big of a leap. Um, but, you know, I ended up, you know, making some initial calls to people that I knew and, and a lot of them, you know, without, you need to see a deck or [00:33:00] materials or formal whatever. We're like, yeah, you know, we're in, like, you know, we've seen what you've been able to do.
We're excited about what you're gonna do going forward, and we want to be a part of it. Um, and so I think the biggest thing was just again, kind of trusting yourself and being willing to make that leap.
Vlad Cazacu: Fantastic. And I'm curious maybe slightly off topic on, on, on the investment, but how did you convince yourself of that?
What was the, was there was something that, came from inside and you can came to a realization? Or was it some external person or factor or event that kind of pushed into saying No, Ali, like, Yes, you can do this, right? Like the fund is the next step in your career and professional journey.
Ali Jamal: Yeah, so I went through a program called VC Lab, and they help accelerate venture fund managers. And so going through that process, seeing the other people that were also starting funds, so what their process was like and being part of that journey together [00:34:00] I think was. Very kind of helpful in, in getting me to a point where I felt comfortable.
I also had used some people that had gone through the program before and I used some people that were going through the program afterwards. So being able to kind of compare notes and say like, okay, this guy is, Three months ahead of, of where I am or six months ahead of where I am and what has he been able to do and, and, you know, how is he able to do it?
And then looking back at where I am and, and you know, not necessarily measuring right, but kind of giving yourself confidence that okay, you can go from this point to that point in. You know, two months if you really work at it. So are you gonna work at it or are you gonna be a lazy bum and stay where you are for the next two months?
Um, and, and so, you know, I, I think, uh, we're going through a program like that that really does get you to a point to have a fund. And, and, you know, it was a, a kind of a, a challenging experience. But like a positive challenge experience, right? I mean, you [00:35:00] know, there was a lot of times you're like, oh, like if I was trying to do it by myself, I might have been like, oh, I'm not ready for that.
I'll, I'll do it in a couple months. Uh, and instead it was like, no, the deadline is next week, so I gotta do it now. So even though I might not be comfortable talking to people just yet, I need to go out there and talk to them, even though I might not be comfortable. Setting up, you know, my corporate structure just yet, I gotta go do it 'cause it's due.
Right? So just kind of going through that process of, um, having a schedule, having a, a, uh, a timeline, going through it with other people and seeing how they were doing it. Um, there's, there's just a lot of, you know, different things was setting up a fund. Um, and you also are gonna have like a million questions, but going through it with people who, you know, have helped set up hundreds of other funds.
And really kind of gives you the confidence in what you're doing. Fantastic.
Vlad Cazacu: I didn't know that, that you went through that program, but it seems that the accountability to some extent and the network [00:36:00] around to some extent forces you right, to take the next steps and, step by step you're gonna eventually get to that that journey where the fund is raised and created and you're ready to deploy capital.
Ali Jamal: Yeah, exactly. And you know, I think it was a mix of, having a cohort and knowing that other people have gone through it before, hearing from the other people that have gone through it before that were in your shoes, not that much longer ago, seeing what they've been able to accomplish and then just ask yourself like, if they can do it, why can't I do it?
What do they have that I don't have? Um, You know, and, and you know, you can always make excuses. You can always, you know, give yourself a longer timeline or, or whatever. But when you're seeing everybody else around you do it, then you kind of start to realize, Yeah, you could do this too. There's no excuse for you not to do it, so you gotta get it, move on.
Vlad Cazacu: It becomes possible. Yeah. Fantastic. This has been an excellent conversation. We'd love to, to move to a quick rapid fire to wrap up not necessarily, about investing, getting people a [00:37:00] chance to know a little bit more about Ali. And quite frankly our first conversation always in this rapid fire is: what is one thing that people don't know about Ali Jamal that they should know about?
Ali Jamal: You. Um, you know, I think, this is not just about me, but I think about, you know, whoever you kind of start to invite into your company right? Needs to be helpful. And, and you know, one of the things that I'm most proud about is whether you ask most of the, you know, companies in my portfolio, they'll tell you that I was one of their most helpful investors, right?
So really being able to add value and meaningful value. Um, to, to, to these companies I think is something that really kind of makes me excited. Um, you know, I think I have a bit of a different background compared to other investors in, in these other markets and, and other investors kind of just in general, right, where I've worked for quite a while.
In tech, in [00:38:00] startups, but also not as a founder, right? So I kind of have this weird thing of, of being an employee in companies, you know, being at some small stage, some later stage, working in a variety of different roles from product growth, finance, data science, um, and being able to bring that perspective and, um, and being able to use that perspective to be helpful, uh, is, you know, Something that is very important to me and something that I think companies really need to utilize out of the people that they're getting, right?
Like one of my questions to almost every startup is like, what do you need besides money? And if you don't know like what you need outside of just cash and you're only talking to me for cash, right? Cash is, capital is a commodity, right? Like, uh, there are a bunch of other places out there that you could go get money, uh, if you're good, if you're not good.
I also don't want to give you my money either, right? So, um, [00:39:00] if you're good, then I. When you're asking for money, it should be for a specific purpose and not just for the money, but what are the other intangibles that you think that I will bring to the table to make you better? 'cause everybody that is coming to be a part of this journey of yours should be making you better.
Um, and, and so I think the one thing that I would, you know, wanna tell people or, or want to, you know, ask people is what are the other people doing? What are your investors really doing for you? How much value are they adding and make sure that you, you know, get people who are value add.
Vlad Cazacu: Second, and the penultimate question on this on this end is, you've traveled and lived, quite frankly all around the world. Curious to hear what is your favorite place out of all the place that you've been?
Ali Jamal: You like every place for different reasons. Um, and there's different aspects of things that you know, you love and different aspects of things that you hate.[00:40:00]
I think, you know, part of it's just my nature. I think being in any one place for too long, I would go crazy and, and my too long might be shorter than most people's. Um, so I, I end up spending a lot of time traveling, a lot of time on, on the road. Uh, you know, for me a lot of it is about just. Understanding, um, what's happening on the ground in these different places, and not just from an investment standpoint, right, but from a country culture, uh, standpoint, and thinking about the history of the place and how that impacts people's lives and the architecture, the, uh, the food, the, you know, government, all these different components of that are out there and being able to kind of.
Come in and absorb as much as I can. Um, you know, I think one of the big things is people always put a lot of these places as exotic [00:41:00] or different, right? And, and, you know, oh, this is the strangest place, or this is the, and, and in reality, I, I just think, you know, places are more similar than they're different.
People are more similar than, they're different, right? Like, Like, no matter where you are in the world, in, in this day and age there, there's so much that is similar, so much that is familiar, um, that these differences I think are actually kind of what makes it unique. And, and, um, you know, being able to embrace that and, and understand that nuance, I think is, is something that I find really exciting.
Vlad Cazacu: That was really beautiful said. And, last but not least, our ending question so far for the podcast is if you have to say, one Thank you. At the end of this podcast, looking back at your, career looking back to your professional journey, who are you most
Ali Jamal: grateful for?
You know, I, I think it, it's, I mean, I'd be surprised if for most people it's not probably their parents got a chance [00:42:00] to live in, you know, a multicultural household, to be exposed to things very early that were different than most of the people I knew growing up. Um, you know, got a chance to travel and explore the world a bit, hear stories about, uh, business and entrepreneurship and, and, you know, people that were out there making a difference.
Um, and so I think that's probably been. You know, one of the biggest things, I mean, in addition to all the other norm, like, you know, love and caring, blah, blah, blah. But I think having that, um, that exposure, right, and, and being challenged, um, at a young age and exposed to things at a young age has really kind of created the, the basis for a lot of my life.
And, uh, you know, I think may, maybe in some ways, uh, you know, my, my parents did, you know, uh, It might be more that I'm taking it too far, too, too much to an extreme, but, um, You know, that ability to go and try to [00:43:00] understand things and learn things and explore things and kind of being, you know, somebody who is always encouraged to learn and question and grow, um, is really what has driven my whole journey and.
Really kind of how I think of myself today, right? As somebody who's still just a lifelong learner and trying to learn more about what's going on and try to have an impact. Trying to be helpful, you know, giving back to community, trying to make an impact in this world. This, you know, I idea of a global community and understanding how you can make the whole world better and, I think.
A lot of people say that, and in a lot of BC say that it probably is all to a certain extent. B yes. But I look at my portfolio and I look at these companies. I look at these amazing entrepreneurs and I see a difference they're making in this world. And, I, I think regardless of how much money we make, and regardless of, what that does [00:44:00] for me personally, I just am really excited about.
Being able to take part in these people's journeys. And we've invested in Vietnam and in Venezuela and in Pakistan. In Brazil and Mexico, Columbia, Peru, Nigeria. You know, like we have companies all over the world that are out there hiring people, trying to make lives better for everyday people.
Right. Um, and to me that, that. A large part of that, I think comes from the values and the ideas that my parents instilled in me from a young age.
Vlad Cazacu: Fantastic. I mean, you're right that the most common answer is parents, but every single answer is very different. And I like this question because of the responses that is solicits quite frankly.
Ali, great conversation. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us on this podcast. Really much appreciated. And hope to see you in a few years back discussing [00:45:00] fund two.
Ali Jamal: Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
Vlad Cazacu: What a great conversation. If you enjoyed it. Make sure you like and subscribe to our podcast and be on the lookout for a new episode in two weeks, featuring another amazing fund manager and their story. If you yourself are a fund manager, angel investor, family office, or syndicate lead who receives a lot of deals or simply wants help sorting through the noise, check out Flowlie at flowlie.com for an AI-assisted deal screening engine and network manager that will dramatically improve how your work.
Discount code below in the show notes. That is for today. See you next time.